"Reading for Life" Round Table with Megan, Laura and Savannah
Why is it that more people can’t read and write? Why are there still so many vastly different methods of teaching literacy? Why do people still argue about it?
In this episode, you’ll hear Hanna discuss the book “Reading for Life” with Savannah from Campbell Creates Readers and Megan and Laura from Developing Readers Academy.
Reading for Life examines these three questions, addressing the less evidence-supported ideas about teaching reading and writing which are still alive and well in schools all over the world. This accessible guide bridges the gap between research and practice, translating academic findings into practical suggestions and ready-to-use techniques.
Episode Transcript:
Hanna :
Welcome back to another episode of the My Literacy Space podcast. Today's episode is a round table discussion with Savannah from Campbell Creates Readers and Megan and Laura from Developing Readers Academy. We are talking about the book, Reading For Life by Lynn stone. So let's get into it.
Hanna :
I'm going to let them introduce themselves. So Savannah, why don't we start with you and let me just know where you're from and maybe a little bit of something that you're passionate about.
Savannah :
Yeah, so I'm Savannah Campbell. I'm a reading specialist in Virginia and I am actually a teacher at the school that I went to as a child. And it's really become my passion in life to help this particular school. I feel so blessed that so many good things have happened in my life, and I really attribute a lot of it to what happened there. And so I have a really wonderful opportunity every single day to give back. And it's great. I love it.
Hanna :
Love it. All right. Other friends?
Megan :
Yeah. I'm Megan, and this is Laura, and we are reading interventionist in Minnesota and we discovered the science of reading, I want to say what? Three years ago or so, we went through letters training, and just since then we have become so passionate about how can we best help these kids and how can we bring the science of reading into our schools so that all of our kids can have the best instruction possible. And we've really just become extremely passionate about literacy and reading and all that fun stuff.
Laura :
Yeah, and I just love learning something new every single day still.
Hanna :
I love that. Okay. There's a little reflection that I like to do when I am learning something new. And I do not remember where, I did not make this little reflection image up, but it's something that has really stuck with me for a really long time of a way that I can, if I've gone to a webinar or a workshop or read a new book, it's taking a self-reflection of you draw three objects on a piece of paper.
Hanna :
So we have done this, and we're going to be talking about this book, Reading For Life, with three objects. So the first one we drew was a square, and this is going to be talking about what thought or concept from the book squares with your belief. And then we drew a triangle and this would be, what three points can you take into your daily practice? What can you take for three points of a takeaway? And then the circle is reflecting of what is still circling through our thoughts after reading this book.
Hanna :
Now I know all of us have read lots of different books. Sometimes I think they interweave and they make us think about something else, and this was a while ago that we all started chatting about we really need to talk about this for a podcast. So I know that we've read other things and learned other things, but I think it's a great way to show other people even how to do a self reflection of the material and the content that we are doing.
Hanna :
The thing that really squared with my belief when I read this book was that word level recognition really is relying on six key skills, and I love that they added the oral language development as a really key, critical skill. So they taught, and she just reminded everybody about phonological and phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary, and comprehension. But that underlying basic skill, that important explicit and systematic construction still includes oral language development. And that for me was really fantastic, because it just, I think sometimes, and not that people have forgotten, but that was something just really squared with my beliefs, because I've worked with really little kids as well. And that's an area that you see as a deficit area and we really need to bump that up. So Savannah, what was something that, from the book that really squared with your beliefs?
Savannah :
And can I add something to what you-
Hanna :
Yes, always. Jump in at any time.
Savannah :
I think what you had said about the oral language is really critical too, especially because it's a kind of thing that we don't really plan. We say, "Oh, what's in the standards?" We talk every day, we do these kinds of things, but we're not very explicit and direct on what we're hoping to achieve from it. So I completely agree with you.
Savannah :
So from my squaring with me, I have a quote because it's like one of the most beautiful things I've just ever heard and it just speaks to me. She says, "If you can't read, your life choices are very different from those of literate people. It is hard to fit into or contribute to society. Illiteracy is everybody's problem." And I think when we get caught up in the reading wars and when we get caught up in who's right, and what's going on, sometimes we forget that it's not just about who's right here. It's about these children's actual lives and what they're going to be able to do or not do when they get older as a result of our instruction.
Savannah :
So what we do right now in today, we may not see the immediate results of it, but it is going to have a lasting, either positive impact or negative impact. And that just is going to stay with me for the rest of my life. It is everybody's problem.
Hanna :
I agree. Yeah, that's actually one of my three points on the triangle that I was like, "Is this squaring with my beliefs? Or this is like something that I have to keep going forward to keep at the forefront of my mind, is that literacy is such a social justice issue." So I'm going to talk about that one in a minute, but let's have Laura and Megan, what squared with your beliefs?
Megan :
Something that stood out to me, I taught balanced literacy, and Laura and I have talked so much about this, but I taught balanced literacy for years before learning about the science of reading. And I remember going through and sitting through so many trainings about the three queuing system. And I think Lynn Stone does an amazing job of explaining why it's not effective. Why it is not the way to go, and how we are creating a huge problem for so many kids by using the three queuing system. And she used the term temporary glow. So those, that I'd loved that. Like those [inaudible 00:07:31] teachers to you feel this temporary, "Oh, look it's working. My kids are reading." And then they hit second grade, third grade, fourth grade, and that glow is gone and those skills and those strategies, puff, that is out the door.
Megan :
And that is something that has stuck with me because I remember sitting in trainings, learning about the three cuing system as a teacher and being told, "Oh, you just kind of got to... What could they be thinking? And oh, they can use the pictures." And I was just eating it up at the time, not knowing any better. Right. And it was just something that really sticks in my brain that I'm so glad I know now that I'm so ready to put away and aside and hopefully help other teachers see, oh this is not effective. This is not-
Hanna :
One of the things that hit home for me along those lines where she said, "Guessing is a dead-end street."
Megan :
[crosstalk 00:08:28].
Hanna :
"It's not efficient or sustainable." And I was like, okay. Yep.
Laura :
As interventionists, we would always get frustrated because we would do the testing, and then we would have third and fourth graders who had never serviced before all of a sudden qualifying and good frustrated parents wondering why they were qualifying? Teachers confused. And it just makes so much sense now that they don't have those decoding and PA [inaudible 00:08:53] skills, the foundational skills that they needed.
Hanna :
Yeah.
Laura :
And like all of a sudden they're like, "Why are they guessing and everything?" And I'm like, "You never taught them in the first place."
Savannah :
I was raised in a balanced literacy world too, and it all felt very respectful and honorable for the child and for the teacher as well. So we were all about honoring their mistakes. So if they said pony, instead of horse, it was like, "Oh, that made sense. That was such a smart move." But just because in that moment it was something that made us feel better. That temporary glow, like you said, it's not [inaudible 00:09:25] moving our children forward.
Hanna :
And we wouldn't let them do it in any other subject.
Savannah :
No.
Hanna :
No. It just continues to bug on my mind that that's something that we're still going to let slide or be acceptable. We would not allow two plus two is not five. It's close and it starts with an F, it's not.
Megan :
Right.
Megan :
[crosstalk 00:09:47].
Hanna :
Exactly.
Hanna :
We don't, we don't let things slide in any other. That's what I kept thinking about when I was like, okay, we got to switch this up.
Hanna :
Okay. Let's move on to the triangle. So for me there was like three main pieces that yes, some of it squared with my belief, but it was just seeing the way that she wrote it on the page. What is crystal clear. I feel like she's very direct, which is really good. And yes, she's gentle, she's not bashing people, but very direct. There was just like, oh, seeing it in print was like, I got it. I got it. [crosstalk 00:10:27] she talked a little bit about the Matthew effect about that oral language, and the rich getting richer and the poor getting poor. So it's that literacy as a social justice piece really hit home a little bit more where she was talking... I started reflecting about...
Hanna :
The thing for me in it is accessibility. So what is accessible and what is not accessible? And who are things accessible for? And I think that was something that I've really been much more aware of in terms of, let's think of even access to healthcare for medical, physical reasons why reading or spelling, or speaking for kids can be so difficult. And access to hearing and vision screens or services from a speech and language pathologist, or medical issues of even tongue ties or anything like that, that prevent medically a physical reason why kids will struggle, right? If you are privileged to be able to stay at home with your kids and you have a vehicle and you can drive to the library, and you can have family reading time, and you have a library card or you can do some of these wonderful language building opportunities. If you don't have that kind of privilege, you are already starting off miles behind-
Megan :
Absolutely. Right.
Hanna :
... Other kids. And so then they get to school and then if teachers and families aren't able to access the right information and education to pass on, we have another branch that also is weakened for that little child. So that was what was really the point going forward for me on the triangle was like, in what I am doing, am I creating accessibility for educators, for families and for the kids themself? So what are all the things that they have to jump through that are preventing them, blocking them from access to information, resources? That's made me think over and over again. So I could say, "Sure, literacy is a social justice issue," but what does that exactly mean? So she really lays out a lot of that in the book.
Hanna :
So let's talk about, that's one of my triangle pieces, but Savannah, what was you, what is one of your triangle?
Savannah :
I got to add on to what she said.
Hanna :
Love it. Love it.
Savannah :
The same thing she said in the book and what was a John had quote, it said, "A belief that we can make a difference for children from poorly resourced families is a critical starting point." And I just love that, and it's so true about access. And I think I have, every human, I have a lot of failings in what I am, but one of the things that I'm very good at is making connections with families because I come from that world. I come from a working mom who raised three girls and a boy all on her own. And she didn't have time. I have one child and I don't have time to read up every night. So I am fully aware of the struggles.
Savannah :
And so I think that has helped me to keep that kind of accessibility in what can we expect? And just the fact that parents are sending their children to us, the very best they have. Nobody is just sending their kid off to school, the worst they have, it's the best they have. That's what my principal always says. And the truth of the matter is we have to take them as they are, and we have to accept the fact that what they get in those seven hours of school in a day, may be all that they get. And so what you send Hannah is just totally in my ballpark too.
Savannah :
My triangle, the first thing that I took away from it was that Lynn Stone and I really need to be friends. And I hope [crosstalk 00:14:15] because I want to be her friend. Her voice in this book is the thing that stuck with me.
Hanna :
Oh good. Yes.
Savannah :
If you are on the fence about balanced literacy, don't read this book just yet because she's not going to hold your hand and she's not going to tell you, "Sweetheart, it's okay." She's going to like, "Stop it right now, [crosstalk 00:14:34] together for the sake of the kids. The chapter on cult-
Hanna :
Yes. Oh my gosh.
Savannah :
... On cult and then just sitting there reading it, and you're like, was I in a balanced literacy cult?
Hanna :
Yes. I actually thought the same thing. Like I'm a survivor of a cult.
Savannah :
Now I'm so happy, I'm like, "Who brought me out? Was there an intervention?" Like an actual takeaway though, something that she said, she says, "Unfortunately, if your lessons have failed to help a student progress, it's your fault. Not the child."
Hanna :
Yeah.
Savannah :
And at the end of the day, it is our responsibility to teach the child. And some days we will fail and some days we will be successful, but we have to keep in mind the fact that it is us and not the child who is having to make short. Especially the elementary school level, they're just little kids.
Hanna :
Yeah. But I think going along with that, when she was talking about the way that balanced literacy really puts the onus on the child to figure it out, and even just that one statement I was like yeah, we are saying, no, you need to look at the context of the sentence. You have to look at the picture. You have to, and they're actually not taught how to actually decode and pull that word apart, that we've failed. Right off the bat we've already... That really stuck with me too Savannah. I think that was something that really struck home. All right. What about you guys, what are you thinking?
Megan :
I think we had a similar one. We looked it separately, but we were talking about the synthetic phonics piece and how it needs to be explicit and systematic. And I think we've done a pretty good job of that over the years. But the big pieces for us were the cumulative and the diagnostic parts. We would teach one phonic skill and we would teach it explicitly, but then we would just right away move on to the next phonic skill. [crosstalk 00:16:37] learn how important it is to spiral back because next year they'd come back and wouldn't know the phonic skills of the year before. We'd be like, "Do you remember?" They, "What do you mean, they knew this last year.
Savannah :
If we do not have review put into our lesson plans daily, it is not going to happen. Review is not just something that we do when the lesson is short.
Hanna :
Yeah.
Laura :
We would just skip over it and use it for a game time at the end, when we've got a few extra minutes and now it is at the start of every one of the lessons. So we make sure we get to it every day. So I know that was a really big learning piece for us this year.
Megan :
And another one that I think is huge is that all kids benefit from explicit instruction. This is not just our two or three kids, this is not just our intervention or special education kids. This is something that can benefit everyone. So why would we not do this? It doesn't make sense to not do it. Everyone is going to benefit and walk away. It just is like, well, duh?
Laura :
Yeah. And she says, "Dyslexic children do not require specialized instruction." This instruction is the instruction that will help dyslexic children.
Hanna :
[crosstalk 00:17:44] humans take the same transit through the... Brains do the same thing? This is something I share a lot with people is, so my youngest is gifted and went into kindergarten reading at grade eight. Now I did not teach her how to read, she just read. There was no sit down of, "Now this is the letter and this is the sound and now we're going to..." She just looked at a word and figured it out. And she has a very high IQ in language and in science, in math, but not in writing.
Hanna :
So as soon as she had to produce a sentence, elephant was L-F-N-T, orange was O-R-N-J. Couldn't spell worth a darn. And I thought so then no one in school then ever sat down and was like, "Okay, I'm glad you can read at grade eight. However, like we need to now-
Megan :
Fill the gaps, right?
Hanna :
... Teach the kid, because spelling was like on her final outcome for the psychological assessment. She looked gifted here and LD in writing. But even that was one of the first times when I started thinking like, wait, hold on. "How can you be a really proficient reader, but suck at spelling?" And it was really, she had this photographic memory. She could just look at a word and she could make sense of it. But she couldn't really spell tho any of those words.
Hanna :
So that always to me, drills home again, like it's for everyone. Everybody-
Savannah :
Spelling now, how's she spelling now?
Hanna :
She's learned, like she's got tons of compensation things that she's done and she made it through university and is an ecologist. So she did something. Good thing computers came along at that time [crosstalk 00:19:37] really for her that she was playing catch up for years because spelling was not, no one ever really taught her that.
Hanna :
As I've dived into stuff in the last decade or so I'll say something and she'll be like, "I know that rule." And then I'm like, "I'm sorry, I thought they would tell you at school and that's a new rule for me." I knew how to spell those words. But I think for me as well, it was that whole word. Just learn it, just memorize that word and I was like, got, okay. And I-
Megan :
I think of so many kids right now, I'm thinking of the school we go to that the teachers are so focused in on those tier three, tier two kiddos that are gifted. Kids often time are not given enough time and energy, but they will have these holes and they will have these gaps that need to be filled. It's so important to keep them in mind too, not just the other end of the spectrum. All these kids need this instruction.
Hanna :
I agree, okay. So my second point on my triangle was the importance of vocabulary. A lot of people have really been pushing phonics and yes, absolutely the science of reading, structured literacy, that is a component. But so is everything as you're going up the pyramid if you're thinking of that oral language and phonological awareness and phonics, and fluency vocabulary and comprehension, vocabulary is critical.
Hanna :
And I'm going to read a little chunk of it because I thought it was so good. "Reading has important reciprocal effects for vocabulary. Vocabulary is built for reading and reading proficiency increases through vocabulary." So this is what it, people are agreeing to. She said, "But you cannot say that reading builds vocabulary and then postulate that children should learn to read by guessing. The proposition that good readers guess and that people build vocabulary through reading cannot be both true." You can't hold both things and say, both are true. So she said, "If good readers, guess what words are on the page with increasing efficiency, then they can only read words they already know. Therefore, they can only add words to their vocabulary by hearing them not reading them. Therefore, reading cannot possibly increase vocabulary. If you increase guessing, there's no point encouraging reading for vocabulary building you choose."
Hanna :
And I was like, dang, whoa, okay. [crosstalk 00:22:12]. I was like, okay. And that's where she said, then earlier what I said, guessing is a dead-end street. It's not efficient and it's not sustainable. So you can't have both theories as being true at the same time. So really being intentional about the tier one, tier two, tier three vocabulary and not just kind of, here's your word of the week, and then that's it. Like really being intentional of, even looking at morphology with that word, looking at how do we use it? What kind of part of speech is it? And really then getting kids to make sure that they are not just hearing... And then we are, have it on posted on some poster in the classroom, but like really starting to understand that word and the synonyms and the antonyms and all the parts that go with that. So that was so good. I love that.
Savannah :
What makes it so hard is that it's no easy fix. If it's just the third grade teacher in your school or just the fourth grade teacher, just the fifth grade teacher, that's explicitly teaching vocabulary. Our kids are going to suffer. It has to start even before kindergarten and moving on up. And I have a perfect example from my own experience about how not having that vocabulary and background knowledge can be detrimental. So when I was in high school in geometry class, there was a word problem and it talked about a surveyor's tripod, and I had never heard of a surveyor before, and I didn't know what a tripod was. And so I couldn't even do the math because I didn't even have the vocabulary to understand what they were asking of me. And I was too embarrassed to say anything.
Savannah :
So vocabulary, I am with you. It is such a critical component to not just choose those words that are the most specific tier three. But those words that we can use in multiple context and multiple content across the curriculum, I'm with you.
Megan :
Yep, 100%. And like you said, it can start before kindergarten.
Savannah :
My daughter's two, and we just did one of those butterfly kit and she can tell you about how a caterpillar, she calls the Chrysalis, the Christmas.
Megan :
Adorable.
Savannah :
"[crosstalk 00:24:22] the Christmas." And then she'll play. And so it's just using that language and thus come to us in a language deficit, we don't just say, "Guess we can't do nothing for them." We have to start it, and we have to be really precise in how we do it.
Megan :
Yeah. Yep. And she does a great job talking about that, the kids that come in with that oral deficit, that is our job then. That is a huge job of ours as teachers to take that on and build that in them. So it's hard, but we got to do it. It's just so imperative for these kids.
Savannah :
Yeah, I agree.
Hanna :
Okay. Savannah, what's your second hard on the triangle?
Savannah :
Okay, I guess like cheated and did one and two together. My one and two were be friends, and then if the child failed, [crosstalk 00:25:09]-
Hanna :
That's settled. Okay, [crosstalk 00:25:10] number three, that's fine.
Savannah :
Like a journey I've been going on, and this is both my triangle and my circle is the importance of handwriting. And we simply don't spend enough time. We expect children as soon as they're out of kindergarten, they should be able to write and they should have good print and we don't spend explicit instruction. Okay, if they're doing B and these reversals, are we explicitly teaching them? If they can't write their Gs proficiently, are we explicitly teaching them? So just the fact that children who cannot automatically, efficiently, effortlessly write letters, how are we ever going to expect them to write words, sentences, paragraphs, essay? You have to spend the time.
Savannah :
And then at [Crepson 00:25:50], I used to be that person that hated cursive. I was like, "What's the point?" But now I see that for our kiddos who were entering second and third grade who have had years now of being inefficient with print, it could be their saving break. It could be the thing that helps build them to be proficient writers. And so just the handwriting discussion that she has, I think is really important and all the tips that she gives as well.
Hanna :
Yep. I agree. All right. Third point on your triangle?
Megan :
I don't even know where we are. I will say a lot of this has been covered. I will. There was a really interesting quote and it goes with the circle more. I don't know if it's a circle or a triangle. She says, "There's much to talk in education about 21st century skills and preparing for jobs that haven't been invented yet, but we need to get the basics of literacy and numeracy right before flying off into futuristic fantasy world." And that stuck with me because I remember in so many college classes, we'd talk a lot about the 21st century skills and we don't know what they're going to be learning. But why don't we get this basic and foundational skills settled before we even worry about, because they're not going to be able to do those 21st century skills if they can't read and write. And if they can't do their basic math and they can't...
Megan :
So that just really honed in about how important this is, these primary early skills. Let's worry about those first, before we move on to the big futuristic.
Hanna :
Let's talk about comprehension because this was the third point on my triangle. Because again, I think that this is something that's quite misunderstood and I actually had never heard this statistic or the data on this, but she was talking about how comprehension is not a path to word level reading. And then she said in 2014, there was a study done of 425000 third graders. Savannah's cut this one down too. It showed that only 1% of these children who were surveyed, scored high on decoding and vocabulary, but low on comprehension, which means that fewer than 1% actually needed explicit comprehension instruction.
Hanna :
And I was like, okay, I need to read. That was literally on the first page of the comprehension chapter and I was like, I thought in my mind, this was not a chapter that I was going to really find too much information. I thought, "Yeah I got this one, this is one I'm good at." And then I was like, "Wait a second-"
Megan :
Wait a minute.
Hanna :
Okay, hold on. So then she talks about those key critical things that lead up to somebody understanding what they read. Yes, comprehension is always the end goal, otherwise what are we reading for? This is the whole point. But she was like, "First kids have to identify the letter rapidly enough to form sequences of sounds in unfamiliar words." And I'm like, okay. Yep. "And then they have to build those sounds into words, connect those words to oral language, identify known one words rapidly so that automaticity and the accuracy have to be there. Then they have to access the likely definition based on the context of the phrase or the sentence. They have to then accumulate those words to form sentences, and then they have to assemble those sentences to form an understanding of the author's intent. And that's all done..."
Hanna :
So she talked about the conductor of that orchestra is working memory. And I was like, "Oh, there's a lot that goes into comprehension way before you just say, this is what inferencing means, or this is [crosstalk 00:29:25]. Yes those skills do have to be taught, but all of those other pieces happen way before.
Megan :
Absolutely.
Hanna :
And I think a lot of times I perhaps was jumping straight to the comprehension piece and yes, there's oral comprehension versus reading comprehension. That's understanding the difference between, I can do a read aloud and let's talk about what I just read aloud. But when kids are doing the reading, there's a lot that's going into it before they can really grasp the understanding. So she said, "Then the poor working memory, doesn't just slow a reader's pace, it actually hinders their comprehension and then prevents them from gaining any new words." So that was for me, like a little okay, we really have to make sure looking at that working memory for kids and those executive functioning skills and how can I really support those students? They're not just slow readers or they're not being lazy or they're not just, things for them are not coming as automatic and as quickly because they're doing or their brain is like, that cognitive overload is immense and that helped me pick apart. Okay, I have to look at that specifically, not just, "Well let's now work on inferencing because you didn't get it." That was for me a real, that data point for less than 1% will actually need explicit comprehension instruction. That was pretty neat.
Savannah :
And I think going with what you're saying about us not understanding the working memory constraints and things like that. I think some of the problem comes as that many of us teachers are about 40%. We're that 40% that learn to read seemingly effortlessly, automatically. And so we never had to stop and think about these processes. It just came to us, but now we are teaching 60% of our children for whom it doesn't come naturally. And so it's having to shift from what we learned like that automatic nature that we have, to understanding how they're doing it, how their brains are working.
Hanna :
So the circle then is what's still circling in your mind. And one thing that was really circling for me was, how do we then support families? I feel like a lot of us are doing a really great job at talking with other educators and other people that we're working with, colleagues and things, but how do we impact families so that they are going to start requiring and being, they're more knowledgeable about where they're going to send their kids. Or asking admin, or asking school boards to be like, can you make the shift because I've heard about it from educators. I keep hearing, we joked about some of the commenting, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. This is just the pendulum swing. Let's just wait and see." And parents I think are stuck because they don't always have the same access to this kind of information, unless we're putting it forward. Now as a tutor, I can share this stuff with the families of the kids I work with.
Hanna :
Megan and Lauren, I know that you're working on programs and things like that-
Megan :
The focus for us with [crosstalk 00:32:52].
Hanna :
... Right? So that's something that for me has been circling in my mind, like how can I best support families? I know how to best support kids, I feel like I can share as much as I can with educators, but the parent parents or caregivers really need some support.
Savannah :
And how do we support without overwhelming? And then I feel like sometimes in this community that we're all part of, some people don't, aren't always respectful of where people are coming out from it, they can talk down to you. And so I always try with the families, not talking down to people, trying to explain, they don't know [inaudible 00:33:35] and graphing. And you know-
Hanna :
Right, mm-hmm (affirmative).
Savannah :
How do we help without overwhelming? And it's a great point.
Hanna :
Yeah. And at the end of the day, I feel like the parents, families make more change in districts. As teachers, we talk a lot to admin, to our school boards and it doesn't go places a lot of times. But when the parents step up and the families, if we can get them on board and educate them in a way that won't overwhelm them, but let them know there is a way that their child should be being taught, that is when change can happen when we can come together with families and make a change.
Savannah :
So for me, the thing with me circling around, I'm extraordinarily lucky that I live in a district that has embraced the science of reading for several years now. And the people that I work with, the district level literacy specialist, she's so open and she's, "Oh yeah, let's change it." She listens. And so at a district level, we're at a good place.
Savannah :
So we've spent a lot of time getting that word recognition strand settled and in order, and I feel like we've done a good job of it. But so our thing right now is that comprehension and reframing our understanding from this isolated strategy, into how do we build background knowledge and vocabulary? What are we doing with these tax in order, are we letting the strategies lead the way or are we letting the tax lead the way? And that's been what us as a county have been trying to work on. And that's the thing that personally I'm still learning.
Hanna :
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's interesting to just put those out there, because again pieces of this keep coming, the whole science of reading is evolving. The more research that we do, the more we have to be like, "I'm digging in."
Megan :
Absolutely.
Hanna :
I'm going to do a little self-reflection, what is still serving my kids and what is no longer something. I'm pulling out those kinds of things I think that it's, I wanted to set today as showing that self-reflection piece of this is what we're all doing, and this is okay, this is the next step in looking at, what am I doing? What is out there? And we're not throwing the baby out with the bath of water-
Savannah :
We're throwing baby.
Hanna :
Right, there's no baby... What we are doing is we're sniping up like Megan, on your reel today, you're literally snipping up the [crosstalk 00:36:08]. Some of those things that are no longer serving our kids have to be-
Megan :
Said they're gone?
Hanna :
They're gone, they have to be gone. So I think that that's... What is still circling did you guys share? What was circling for you?
Megan :
One big one for me was the school to prison pipeline. That whole section, just man, it just hit me. It was so sad. And I think she did a great job of explaining it. It's not necessarily a causation, but a correlation. And a lot of times the first link in the chain to crime and to this life, and dropping out of school, it can be that first step towards a really bad path if we are not doing justice for these kids. So that part really I'm talking about I believe was California and Arizona. They predict their number of prison beds based off their fourth grade reading scores, based off how many kids pass their fourth grade. That breaks my heart. I think of the fourth graders we work with, these 10 year olds, they're basing their prison beds off of them. That really shook me, I had never really thought of it in that way and knew that fact. So that's something that it shows how important this is. This is so important for these kids.
Hanna :
And when you think of even the school to prison pipeline, when you think of who is incarcerated in Canada, it's a lot of our indigenous people. And so what is happening for our folks who are black and brown folks that they're not having access to this information. And that's the part that really has been striking a chord with me, even as a tutor, it's usually affluent families who can afford a tutor. Is that accessible? Well it's accessible for them, but it's not accessible for some of the kids in our school board who really could use somebody once a week or twice a week, three times a week to just step alongside and say, "You actually can read and I'm going teach you how to be an amazing word detective." Let's go.
Hanna :
And somebody to one on one, believe in them because they just slip through. They just slip through the crack. So I think that that's something that's circling for me, but it's also one of the things that's squared with my beliefs of just like, this has to be accessible to everybody. And how do we do that? I think that's the... And I think we're doing, a lot of us are doing some important pieces. And in one of my other podcasts, I was talking with Corey from the Tiny Activist and we were talking about that sometimes things can be so overwhelming, so big, so heavy, just like, where do I fit? I want to solve it. And somebody, we were talking about somebody had said like, "Just pick the thread that you're able to pull that day and just keep pulling it. Just keep-"
Megan :
I love that.
Hanna :
"... Until that unravels because it is the bigger system. It's not just the little piece." So that's another thing that I've just been like, that's the piece I'm just going to keep working on. I can't fix the whole big problem, but it's leading to the whole big problem.
Savannah :
And I'm so with you, I always think about that too. When you see just like the awful things happening in our country and we all have so much empathy and it destroys your soul sometimes when you see some of the things, and I always take it back that I can't fix that. What I can do is I can make it not happen again by teaching these children how to read. That is what I can do to change the future. And I truly believe that creating literate individuals is the thing that's going to do it for them.
Megan :
Yes, 100%.
Hanna :
Yep. Okay. So what's your one thread? What's the one thread you're pulling? So for me it's, I'm really trying to think of how can I make the content accessible? And that's what I'm going to keep pulling back. Because it's literacy, I feel like with things like Lin Stone's book and Uncovering the Logic of English, we've got lots of really great resources when you can read them and then okay, but how am I going to keep pulling that thread? And for me, it's the accessibility thread for families.
Megan :
I think already similar, oh sorry, we're starting these news classes and a huge goal of ours is making it accessible and more affordable because tutoring is not always an option for families. So we wanted to create an avenue and an option for families that is more affordable than tutoring, that they need that assistance, they need that help, and we want to support and be involved and help as many families and kids as possible. So I think that's what we're trying to do, and we're trying to pull at is-
Laura :
Educating the parents as well, like we were talking about in parent terms and making them feel confident when they walk into a parent teacher conference. They understand when the teacher says phonological awareness, what that means. So just educating, like Megan said, families in general-
Megan :
[crosstalk 00:41:22] that's still support. Right?
Hanna :
Exactly. Yeah.
Savannah :
For me, I'm still very attached to my school in particular. And I still really feel like I have a lot of work there. And so for me, it's helping to stop the cycle through providing, making them literate individuals. Like these children for whom learning doesn't come easy, I want to stop the cycle for them.
Hanna :
Yep, love that. I love that. I know we could continue going on and on [crosstalk 00:41:50] business all day, but I really just wanted to thank you so much. We will have places where people can connect with you in the show notes and it will also be on a blog post on my website. I really appreciate all of your time. So have a good rest of your night.
Connect with Megan and Laura
Instagram: @developing_readers_academy
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Website: www.developingreadersacademy.com
Connect with Savannah
Website: www.campbellcreatesreaders.com
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“Reading for Life” by Lyn Stone
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