Executive Functioning Skills and Literacy with Marisa Ware
This week's guest on the My Literacy Space Podcast is Marisa Ware. Marisa is a literacy specialist who provides individualized reading, writing, and executive function support to students in elementary and middle school. She earned a bachelor’s degree in Behavioral Science with a minor in English and a master’s in Childhood Education. She is LETRS and Orton-Gillingham trained. Marisa is the creator behind MW LITERACY®.
In this episode, Marisa and I talk about:
What Executive Functioning skills are
What a student profile may look like if they struggle with Executive Functioning skills - especially related to literacy skills
The top 5 ways we could support students or our own children
Marisa’s favourite children's picture books to help children learn important Executive Functioning skills
Additional resources for educators and parents to support their children with Executive Functioning skills
Episode Transcript
Hanna:
Hello, everyone. Today's episode on the, My Literacy Podcast is with my friend Marisa Ware from NW literacy. You'll find her on Instagram and we're going to talk about the connection between executive functioning skills and literacy.
Hanna:
So welcome Marisa. Thank you so much for spending some time today.
Marisa:
Thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to be here.
Hanna:
All right. So tell us a little bit about what areas of literacy you're passionate about and how does executive functioning skills link in with that?
Marisa:
Okay. So I'm passionate about all areas of literacy, I would say that the students, I work with elementary and middle school students and the areas I work with most is reading comprehension, writing, and then executive functioning through that reading and writing lens and how to support students' executive functioning through the reading and writing and all their academics.
Hanna:
Great. So when we are talking about executive functioning, give us a little general definition, and then what kind of skills... Like what would the student profile look like if executive functioning skills, we have a deficit in that area or we're struggling in that area?
Marisa:
Okay. So in a nutshell, executive functioning is our ability to efficiently and effectively get things done. It's often referred to as the air traffic control system of our brains. So think about an airport, right? If their air traffic control system was down, there's going to be a lot of miscommunication accidents, confusion, delays, and it is going to be a nightmare for everyone involved at that airport. And that is exactly what is happening in the brains of a child who does not have strong executive functioning skills. So profiles from each kid will vary. You will have one student that struggles with one area of executive functioning, another who struggles with multiple. When I work with students, I look for attention, flexibility, organization, perseverance, planning, task initiation, time management, metacognition, self-control, and working memory. So those are the 10 areas that I look at when I'm working with students to see how we can boost their executive functioning skills to create better outcomes for their reading and writing and just academic experience.
Hanna:
Okay, so if you were working with a child with comprehension skills, let's use that one example. What might it look like? And pick maybe one or two of those things that you were just talking about, one of those 10 pieces. And what might that look like, sort of in real-time?
Marisa:
So if you are having a child who has poor attention or metacognition... Let's focus on metacognition, right? A child who just is reading, but doesn't know what they don't know. So they just keep reading and reading and reading and they get to the end of the chapter and you ask them what happened and they say, "Well, I have no idea." And so they might struggle with making inferences because they just don't know the information that they need to then make that connection to infer, they might not be thinking ahead. If their working memory is also impacted, they're going to have a hard time just remembering from paragraph to paragraph, page to page what's happening. So you're going to really want to work with them then on the working memory piece and the metacognition piece and basically that... Yeah.
Hanna:
Yeah. And let's further define what we mean by metacognition and working memory. Because if people... These are some new terms, even for families that are listening to the podcast, let's make sure that we know exactly what those pieces mean.
Marisa:
So working memory is how your... It's like the mental sticky note for your brain. It's how your brain holds on to information as it's coming in and then how it uses it to support new information that's coming in. Metacognition is thinking about your own thinking, what do you know? What don't you know? So a student who has really strong metacognition is going to be able to read and stop themselves and say, "Hey, I don't really know what this word is. Now how can I help myself figure it out? And how can I use my tools?" On the other hand, a student who has very weak metacognition will just keep reading and they might not even recognize that they don't know what that word is. Someone with weak metacognition might also not be able to activate their prior knowledge and to make the connections that they need to make in order to understand the contents of what they're currently reading.
Hanna:
Right. Okay, that totally makes sense. So what are some ways then, maybe three, four, five top ways that we can then support our own children at home or students that we're working with in executive functioning areas. Now I know that it's not like you can train those skills, but we can kind of work with ideas to be able to scaffold those, support those as they're working. So what does that look like?
Marisa:
So I had a few ways that I was going to discuss how you would support students with executive functioning that is going to cover more broadly because there are so many different types of ways students struggle. You're going to have the child whose desk is never organized, who can never get their assignments in on time. So the first thing I always say is understand what the challenges are and what they look like. And then what's at root of the challenge and how is it impacting that student? So for instance, the student's always handing in assignments late, And you have a lot of well meaning parents that might say, "Oh, if this isn't hand in on time, you aren't going to be able to go to this part of your play this video game." But if you're not getting to the root of why it's happening right then that reward is just going to be really frustrating and unattainable for that child.
Marisa:
So for there, I would really look at why is this happening? Let's say they have a book report due and the kid thinks, okay, well it's just a book report. I just need to read the book, write about it and hand it in. Easy peasy, right? Okay, but what I'm looking at is his planning, his time management and task investigation, he has not planned out how long it's going to take to read this book, what other research he might have to do, he hasn't looked at the outline of the report. Maybe you can't just do it all in one night. So that's what I'm going to look at. And if that child just does not understand how to segment his work and how to plan it out and how to manage that time and how to get started, that is going to be what you want to work on, which gets to the next way. The next way you can support students is through putting systems in place. Any organization that is working, functioning well, there are systems in place.
Hanna:
Absolutely.
Marisa:
Right. [inaudible 00:06:50] no matter what you're doing. So you're going to look at where that student is really struggling. Let's say if it is time management, what if it's just getting out of the house on time, the kid that... He has to go to school the next day and realizes that there's one assignment in every room in the house and it just never gotten to the backpack.
Hanna:
Right.
Marisa:
What systems are we going to put in place to support that child? And then that's what you're going to want to focus on. How are we going to put in routines that are going to support the end goal and objective?
Hanna:
Yep. So one of my own personal children when they were little, they're adults now, but everything was sort of chaos and I'm the opposite. I'm sort of regimented and sort of, I've got a lot of systems in place to get me where I need to be and I think it was really interesting because I just couldn't grasp that this kid just couldn't put those systems into place and then there's this fine line of, do I just set it up and then expect them to follow through? Or do I set it up with them really helping them understand why this system should be in place, that piece of, okay, you're experiencing some chaos, so here's some ideas, let's try one because not every sort of system is going to work for every single kid, it's got to be easy...
Hanna:
I think a lot of times it has to be easily accessible and really something that becomes so automated for them that they don't have to always think about those pieces. So the things like getting the binders that have the zip around, so things aren't falling all over the plate or having the little tiny zipper pouch inside, that's where the pencil, pen, eraser, highlighter, scissors, ruler, what those kinds of... I mean, that's just from an organization piece, but I think that was the biggest thing that was always... I didn't quite understand how somebody just didn't automatically have the idea of, if this is a problem, I'll do this to solve it. So that's kind of what we're doing. We're trying to sort of be the detective, like what's the issue here? And how can I help the child identify that and kind of connect with, yeah, you're right, that's not serving me well, so how do I shift? What do I do?
Marisa:
Yeah. And what makes things even more complicated now is that so much is digitalized. So I have my middle schoolers who say to me, oh my planner's all on Google Keep and I'm still paper and pen all the way.
Hanna:
Yep.
Marisa:
So, then if that's a system that works for them, I need to figure out how to teach them to use that system effectively. If I want them to use a system that works for me, but it's just ultimately not... It's going to fail them, then I have to accept that's not going to work. And your point brings me to the next point that I had was talk to kids about their executive functioning. I think sometimes it's kind of taboo to talk to kids about their problems. Kids are the first ones to really figure out that something's not right, even if they can't articulate it.
Hanna:
Exactly, yep.
Marisa:
And so we need to invite them to be partners in problem solving. They're not going to have all the answers. That's why we have professionals to help us. But if you bring them into the loop and you acknowledge that there is a problem and you talk to them about how everyone struggles with something, this seems to be a challenge for you, let us work together to make it easier or to make it more manageable. And when they feel like they're a little bit more in control, they're also a little bit more motivated and more comfortable to move forward and open to suggestions and to [inaudible 00:10:26] support.
Hanna:
Right, exactly. And I think that's kind of a way that we can even kind of share one of the ways that, oh, time for me is really, really tough to manage. I've got 15 tasks today. Where do I start? Which one's important? That prioritization, that's really hard for kids because they sometimes don't understand what should come first, even that sequencing of events, that's what I've noticed a lot with my students. They know what's due or they know the task, but then they don't know how to sort of break it down into, what's the most important? What's going to take the most time? And then how do I sort of chunk up those pieces? And one of the things that I love doing with my kids is talking about really kind of thinking realistically, what's the shortest amount of time this might take? But what's the longest amount of time? And let's kind of estimate the longest amount of time. And then if we have extra time, that's a bonus.
Hanna:
If they start to think, oh, I could whip that up in 15 minutes and I'll say like, "Really? Is that realistic? Is it going to be a good job or is this going to... You're going to now run out of time because you only allotted 15 minutes." And time is just sort of a hard abstract concept.
Marisa:
Yeah and sometimes you just need to put a label on things for them. Yesterday morning it was one of those mornings in our house where we have systems in place, but not everything is foolproof and we're trying to get the kids to school on time and we did, but we were in the car and I said to my seven year old, I said this morning I felt a little bit flustered. And I explained to her how I felt and she goes, "Ah, I felt that before too. I just didn't know what the word was for it." And it was like such a great moment of connection and identification. Like, oh you know what that feels like and now you have the vocabulary to explain it.
Marisa:
And that's such a huge part of it, which goes into my next point, which is you really need to consider the language that we use with students. How we talk about success, how we talk about how we want them to work on things and accomplish things. One of the things I think we're all guilty of every so often is saying to a kid, pay attention. You're not focusing. Right?
Hanna:
Yeah.
Marisa:
But what does that look like? And kids have to pay attention in so many different areas in their lives and in every area it looks different. It looks different paying attention on the baseball field than it does in reading group than it does in assembly than it does walking in line to lunch. And we need to use much more explicit language, I think because it's just [inaudible 00:12:59] on them sometimes. Like, okay, well I pay attention, I'm told by my coach to pay attention when the ball's coming my way. But now my teacher wants me to pay attention in reading and now I'm behind so and so in the lunch line and I'm told to pay attention. What is... And for some kids it's intuitive and other kids it's, they need that explicit directive of what does it look like to pay attention now and taking those few extra moments in the steps to explicitly explain that to them.
Marisa:
It's important, but also praising them where it's warranted because that sticks and then you can remind them. I loved how last week when we were reading, you did X, Y, and Z that was great paying attention. And then that connection is made for them and that supports them even further.
Hanna:
Yeah, exactly. Well, and I think some of what I see too, with some of my students, I tutor one-on-one and it's easy for us on a one-on-one setting to kind of redirect real quick or, like eyeballs up, something real quick. But I'm not in a classroom full of 25 to 30 students, so that's going to look very different in that setting as well. You got to get everybody's attention before you give that instruction to move on to the next activity. And I think even for older students, I've often talked to about batch working. That's something that has worked, it works in business, but it also works for kids where they can... Let's do all the planning today, we don't have to do all the part all the works for it, but let's do the planning part today.
Hanna:
Let's set aside 15 minutes tomorrow to do the next piece and really scaffold that, so that the next time they have that same sort of routine in place. One day we can do the planning, we don't have to sit there for hours and hours because I think that's the other piece is we do leave it, kids don't understand the time piece and they're not sure about how long this will actually take and then kind of maybe writing some of those things down. So kids are understanding like, oh, the planning actually took 22 minutes. So now I know i need to chunk and allow that amount of time for my next activity or for my next project. What are your thoughts to on some of the pay attention and the focus things about whole body listening? I know that, that's always been like a struggle area for me when people say that because everybody focuses and listens and pays attention in various degrees. I love how you brought in, in baseball, we have to do this or in this setting where doing this.
Marisa:
I'll give you an example, a few years ago, I want to say my kids were probably two and four and we were in a busy parking lot and my daughter wanted to tell me something. And it was just one of those, I had to tell you right now sort of things. And I remember quickly saying to her, "Oh, we're in the parking lot, we need to pay attention." And then once they were all buckled up before I started the car, I had a conversation with them about what I meant. And we started talking about what it needs to pay attention in the parking lot. Paying attention is a little different than paying attention at school or something else and we have to make sure that our eyes are up, we're looking around, we're making sure there are no cars nearby that when we're opening the door, we're not hitting our head with the door. We're watching the door as it opens, we're getting in safely, we're buckling up, we're closing the door, locking the doors. And these are all the ways that we pay attention in a parking lot.
Marisa:
And so I think going back to your point about when you have a class that's 20 to 30 kids, it can be really difficult one-on-one to do that, which is why I'm such an advocate of doing explicit executive functioning lessons as part of the curriculum. And I know our curriculum is already packed, our days already packed, but I think at the end of the day, if we can weave this in explicitly, we're going to be saving time because then we'll have something to refer to. And we can talk about explicitly... You could do a whole section on what it means to pay attention in different classes. What does it mean to pay attention in science lab? When you're working with... As a middle school student or even an upper elementary student, versus when you're paying attention in math class, what does it mean to pay attention when you're working in a small group versus when you're working independently or when you're in a big class discussion?
Hanna:
Yep. One thing too that I think kind of ties into a lot of this is really helping kids understand that they have agency with all of this. So it goes into using that explicit language, helping them to be able to communicate what they need in different settings. And one of the things in comprehension that I always talk about is clarifying and clarifying the meaning of something or clarifying the setting or what's in the one of the events. But I also think it's really important to teach kids to say, "I don't get it." Because if they're not... And you talked about it kind of going back a little bit about the metacognition piece, but in ways of them being able to say, I'm actually quite confused. I don't get this right now and for it to be like, great which part can I break down a little bit more for you? Because I think there's pressure for kids to just automatically get it the very first time.
Hanna:
And sometimes that's on us, we race through the instruction and that can be frustrating because yes, you feel like you're repeating, but some kids really do need more than one or two or three situational pieces where they're explaining it broken down even more and more. So how do we then... How can we explicitly... What are some terminology or what are some... Do you have some books or resources that you love to use sort of to teach those little pieces?
Marisa:
Yes. So I have a bunch of books that I think... Well, yes I have a bunch of books that I was going to share, but one of the things that I was going to also say is going back to the language that we use. So, when I'm working with students, it can take a while to get the hang of any new skill. And especially if you have a student who might have anxiety or low confidence, it's going to be really hard for them to then want to say, I don't get this. And so it goes back to the language that we use as educators. So instead of saying to a child, do you have questions? It's more of what questions do you have? I am expecting you to have a question, same thing with vocabulary, not what words... What don't you know? But make a list of three words that were unfamiliar. So no matter what, they're realizing that there is this expectation that they're not supposed to know everything, they're supposed to have questions.
Marisa:
And I think that's also a really huge part of it. And I'm still working with seventh graders who are really sweet kids who don't want to seem like they're a nuisance. And they feel like if I ask a question, then I'm taking time away from the teacher or I'm too shy to ask this question. And then they're the kids who just don't know what questions to ask. Some kids feel like it's pointless to ask a question and so that's why I think on our part, it is really important to try and use language that it elicits, the information that we want from the student and to let them know that not only is it okay, but it's really important for you to [inaudible 00:20:06]. And it's acceptable, it's normal to have questions.
Hanna:
Absolutely, yep. Okay, so do you have children's picture books or are these resource books for adults?
Marisa:
I have a few different things, depending on... This is a fantastic book, Your Fantastic Elastic Brain.
Hanna:
That is [inaudible 00:20:22].
Marisa:
And so many kids don't really understand how their brain works, which is very complex. And this is such a fantastic way to explain the different functions of the brain.
Hanna:
Yep, have you read this second book to that in the series?
Marisa:
I have not yet, no.
Hanna:
So the second one is called, Goodnight to Your Fantastic Elastic Brain and it's very good and it's all about sleep and how sleep can really impact our learning and our daily sort of even our emotions, how we're sort of operating.
Marisa:
I love that. I'm going to have to add that one to my list.
Hanna:
It's really good, that's a good book too.
Marisa:
This is another great one. What Do You Do with a Problem? Teaches about problem-solving. For kids who feel very overwhelmed, Too Many Bubbles is a great one, it's a story about mindfulness.
Hanna:
Yep.
Marisa:
Fix it with Focus. This author has a whole series. So I think there might be 10 different books in the series. And then I'm Stretched, for the children who are overwhelmed and trying to figure out how to manage.
Hanna:
That's a really good one.
Marisa:
And this is a great one too, when you're thinking about problem-solving and choices and not being impulsive with your decision making, which can be another area that students struggle with, with executive functioning.
Hanna:
So What Should Danny Do? That's the book that Marisa's [inaudible 00:21:40] on our screen, but yeah, that's a really good one for... It's one of those kind of choose your own adventure and you have to make a decision about what should Danny do in a certain event and then it takes you to a certain page. Yeah, those are really great for kids.
Marisa:
For educators and parents or educators, this is a great one, too Executive Skills and Reading Comprehension, if you really want to dive into the executive function skills that are needed for deep comprehension and for older kids, I'd say like, this says eight to 12, but I think you could do this also with a little younger, like teaching about mindfulness, which is also an important area. And then the last one I had was this workbook, which has a lot of great skills that you can use in a classroom, so if you're looking for a book to page through for classroom [inaudible 00:22:33].
Hanna:
Okay, so the title of that one is Executive Functioning Workbook for Kids and there are 40 different activities. That one looks great. We will make sure to link all of those books in the show notes because those are great resources of places to start.
Marisa:
And then the other thing I was going to say that I think are great resources for teachers and parents is that when you're focusing on executive functioning is weaving it into skills that are meaningful. So if I'm working with a student paragraph writing, for instance, is such a fantastic skill to work on once you get to like third, or fourth grade, because it involves so many executive functions. But then you look at something like cooking, that's such a great activity to do at home because cooking, you need to have planning, attention, and utilizing all four types of our attention, depending on what you're cooking and you can differentiate it. You can start with a five-step, no-bake recipe to a full three-course meal execution. Puzzles and games, one of my favorite games is Traffic Jam, if you don't know that one.
Hanna:
Yeah, I do know that one. [inaudible 00:23:37] a fantastic one.
Marisa:
Yeah, so those are some of my go to resources. And again, every student has such a different profile and you really just have to identify what their challenges are and hone in on that.
Hanna:
Yeah. Every day that I tutor, we get one or two brain breaks in sort of the time that we're together and I'll just pick something that's, even if it's just four to five minutes, it's just enough that kind of like, okay, we're not specifically reading. But they don't know, even though we're playing, they have no idea that the games that I'm offering that day or their choice usually have some piece of executive functioning that we're working on. So it might be a strategy in a game like checkers and we're not going to finish the whole entire game, but it kind of gives them an idea of before I take this next move, I need to see what's going to happen, what's my opponent going to do back? So that cause and effect, and they're just thinking we're playing checkers or a game like UNO. Some of those are different... There are multiple rules that they kind of have to all hold, all at the same time, knowing what card they're going to have to play next or snake [inaudible 00:24:48].
Marisa:
Working memory because they're holding the directions of the game, the objective of the game in their head. And then planning because they're planning what the next... Not what their next move is, but what their opponent’s next move could be.
Hanna:
Right.
Marisa:
Yeah.
Hanna:
And so I will often use those games and then when we go back into some literacy activity that we're doing, I'll say like, remember in that game earlier when you did blah, blah, blah. Oh, I love that strategy because we can borrow that strategy in what we're doing right now. You were having to pay attention to what I was doing and watch when I moved my checker. So you knew that, uh-oh, she's going to jump me on the next move if I don't move out of the way. Some of those, okay, here's a big word coming up, what strategy are we going to have to do to solve this word? So I think there's so much overlap, so I'm so glad you brought up games because I was going to bring it up if you didn't.
Marisa:
No, it's a fantastic connection and it's a great way for them to... I mean, some of these skills in isolation are not very helpful, but when you put them into context of something else that's meaningful and then you generalize them, that's where the greatest success and outcome is going to happen.
Hanna:
I agree. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciated having a conversation. We will again, attach all the notes that we've talked about into the show notes at the end of the podcast, but thank you, have a wonderful rest of your day.
Marisa:
Thank you so much for having me.
Connect with Marisa
Get to Know Marisa
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mwliteracy
Website: https://www.mw-literacy.com
Executive Functioning Information Sheet:
https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Executive-Functioning-Skills-Handout-6988990
Recommended Books:
Too Many Bubbles
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3Neddle
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3GDy9zI
Your Fantastic Elastic Brain
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3Ma7AD6
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3m3uvFB
Goodnight to Your Fantastic Elastic Brain
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3aiUNkw
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3agA54N
Fix it with Focus
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/38W8UfD
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3M9yg75
I’m Stretched
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3Nc8vEq
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3m4CrXj
What Should Danny Do?
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3NcpVRA
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3GJAV6C
Executive Functioning Workbook for Kids
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3M9z0ZV
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3936V9d
Executive Skills and Reading Comprehension
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/38DIcrO
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3mnVyMl
Recommended Games:
Uno Card Game
Amazon Canada link https://amzn.to/3x8anZp
Amazon US link https://amzn.to/3Nck2DM