Way Past Book Series Author Chat with Hallee Adelman
Hallee Adelman is an educator, writer, producer, and filmmaker. With a PhD in education, Adelman has taught elementary through university students and has been nominated for Disney Teacher of the Year on multiple occasions.
This past April, Adelman released three new picture books published by Albert Whitman & Company. Way Past Lonely and Way Past Afraid, are the two latest books in Hallee’s Great Big Feelings series, joining 2020 titles Way Past Mad and Way Past Worried and 2021 titles Way Past Jealous and Way Past Sad. These Social Emotional Learning books help kids explore and manage their feelings, with accompanying lesson plans, activities, and videos available for free at WayPastBooks.com. Hallee also released The Strongest Thing, a standalone picture book that reminds children of the strength found in love and kindness—and in themselves.
Whether she is sharing a story, supporting her local schools, or serving a non-profit, Adelman’s greatest passion is lifting kids, families, and creators as they share their stories, inspire change, and spread laughter. She resides outside Philadelphia, PA with her husband, daughters, and dogs.
In this episode we will chat about:
How the descriptive language used in the series helps children visualize the emotion making it easy to relate to
Diverse representation of families and character names
The importance of using picture books to build social and emotional language and skills
How families and educators can use these books to support children
Episode Transcript
Hanna:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the My Literacy Space podcast. Today, I am here with author of the Way Past series, Hallee Adelman. Welcome, Hallee.
Hallee Adelman:
Thank you, Hanna. I'm so excited to be with you.
Hanna:
It's wonderful to meet face to face. We've chatted in direct messages, through Instagram, we've done some wonderful collaborations where you've graciously gifted books to me, and then to some of my followers in little contests or whatever through Instagram, but it's a wonderful way to meet authors and really then share their story, but also get to hear maybe some of the inspiration or some of the messaging behind why they wrote those specific books.
Hanna:
And today I want to link the social and emotional learning pieces that you've done such a great job of in writing the Way Past series and why that's important to me and why I would include something like that.
Hanna:
Yes, I love picture books in general, but I also think it's really important to bring to the forefront of our minds the concept that if we are socially more mature and we are understanding how we can focus on social-emotional learning with our students and with our own children, then we can get to the academics. We can't get into some of those really important literacy skills when we're emotionally unregulated, when some of these pieces of social of emotional learning are missing because they often come out all the way through, especially if something's really difficult to learn. So I wanted to start off with that's one huge reason why I also wanted to have you on.
Hanna:
But I also wanted to thank you and the publisher, Albert Whitman too, because there's not a huge space yet, it's coming and coming in over the last maybe two or three years, I've seen way more books in publishing that are designated for that social and emotional learning and the development and those interpersonal skills, learning to cope with feelings, awareness of ourselves, awareness of others. So it is really important to celebrate that because I think that, as I was a child and even my [inaudible 00:02:08] were little ones, there wasn't a lot of books so there was a lot of missed opportunities, missed context for having conversation like this. So I'm really grateful that these books are being published at all because they really create space for that.
Hanna:
What made you decide to create the Way Past series? Because you now have, I think, because there's six in this series? 1, 2, 3, yep, 6. I have the books beside me, six in the series. What was the inspiration or what does that mean to you to create social and emotional learning books?
Hallee Adelman:
I think it's funny. I didn't necessarily start out with that in mind. I started out with just the idea of bringing truth to kids.
Hanna:
Yep.
Hallee Adelman:
And for me, I guess that translates into being fully honest and letting them experience everything that a lot of times adults say, "Okay, move on or stand up or brush it off." And there's a place sometimes for those moments too, but kids really are so smart and there's beautiful and special, and to give them skills and tools and models...
Hanna:
Right.
Hallee Adelman:
... of people making mistakes, feeling things that are hard, and figuring out what to do with those feelings.
Hanna:
Yep.
Hallee Adelman:
It's super, super important. And my goal with all of my work is long-term. So it might be a book that you're reading in the moment. But for me, my wish for kids is for them to be resilient and to be strong and to pick up things that, as adults, we may, and sometimes may not, have learned along the way just to make them as strong as they possibly can be in life.
Hanna:
I love that. I think what one of the things that has really resonated with me about these books is thinking back to my childhood. I was [inaudible 00:03:59] to be, or to produce or to be seen as very positive, very happy. I quickly learned that people wanted and expected that from me so any kind of "negative emotion", maybe anger or sadness or jealousy was like wrong and you should like just squash it really quick. Like, don't show that we should just show happiness.
Hanna:
I remember my brother being really little and being sent to sit on the stairs until he could be happy. And he was there sobbing and tears streaming down his cheeks and he was like, "I'm a happy boy now. I'm a happy..." And I was thinking like, "This just seems so bizarre." You're clearly not happy and you're being punished for being sad or being shamed for having a big emotion.
Hanna:
So I think that was something that really we have to help kids understand that all human beings express and feel a range of emotions even in one day. And you can even hold multiple emotions at the same time, which is very confusing for a little child because they don't have quite the language to express it so it comes out in our actions or crying or people will be like, "They just had a temper tantrum." And you're thinking, "What are they trying to communicate?"
Hanna:
And I think these books do a really great job of not only showing the specific word for it, like Way Past Lonely, Way Past Afraid, like naming those feelings but then also a way through those. And I love the play on words, like the Way Past series, like the Way Past lonely, you can experience one portion of it, but it's the spectrum. You could be like extremely lonely and it's this way, big, huge emotion, but there's also a way past those emotions and way through it, it's not demeaning it.
Hanna:
Professor Dan Siegel says, "Name it to tame it." And I've always loved that phrase because he talks about by naming those emotions, we're stimulating the thinking part of our brain, which then can stimulate the vagus nerve and helps calm our bodily response. Once we can name it, we're not maybe stuck so long in that fight, flight, or freeze moment. Those moments are the body's way to protect us from maybe a perceived harmful or an unsafe situation, an uncomfortable spot. But picture books, I think, like this series, can really create the space then to start conversations, which we can't have them in the exact moment of those hard conversations because we're operating out of those very limited thinking PowerPoints and we're just stuck.
Hanna:
Pre-teaching some of the concepts or revisiting them once we feel maybe a little state of debrief after the moment where we can step into those spaces with a picture book so kids can relate. And it's non-confrontational, that's what I love about it. It's not a lecture, it's not wagging the finger, it's just a real introduction to the concepts. And I loved that you used real people, like kids and humans, compared to animals. Was that like a specific choice that you made?
Hallee Adelman:
I think that's just natural for me. I was a teacher, I taught elementary through university and I'm also a mom. So for me, grounding these situations in what's so real...
Hallee Adelman:
But it's funny, you talk about kids needing to have a more clear mind sometimes to be able to receive learning, to be able to connect with books, and to grow stronger with their literacy skills, it's so true. When I originally started writing Way Past Mad, which was the first book in the series, it really was that idea as a teacher, sometimes kids come to school and they're bringing something with them.
Hanna:
Yeah.
Hallee Adelman:
Whether it's something they're seeing at home, something that happened to them, they're bringing something with them when they walk in the classroom. And Way Past Mad, it's interesting because Way Past was also, for that book playing with the road to school in a sense too so it was like a triple way past [inaudible 00:08:07] that book, but it really was like, how can you get from a point where you're bringing something with you to a point where you can let it go? And all of those, the books, even though Way Past Mad specifically was for that, like a kid is leaving for school, "The little sibling messed up the room, then the dog ate the breakfast. This is crazy. Nobody is saying goodbye to me. I'm mad." And that just is so natural.
Hallee Adelman:
So for me, choosing kids in the stories makes the most sense for these stories, because I want all kids to see, "Oh okay." If you're not ready to say, "Oh, I take my anger out on a friend," if you're not ready to do that as a kid and admit the bad part of what you do, you can see another child doing it, you can see someone else making the mistake and talk about, "Oh, did you see when Kia did that?" Or like in Way Past Jealous when Yaz yanks Debbie's picture off the board because she's jealous Debbie is getting all the attention. You have the opportunity for kids to see other children making these mistakes, and in turn, it's my hope that they won't feel so badly if they've made a mistake like that.
Hanna:
Right.
Hallee Adelman:
It can just be a starting point to say, "Okay, I did that," or at least to think, "Okay, I [inaudible 00:09:24] that too. And now, how do we untangle that?"
Hanna:
I love that too. And one of the things that I've noticed and my students have noticed is the overlap of some of the characters in the books. So they're recognizing, "Hey, they were in the other book," or "They, oh, they, oh..." and it makes that feeling like this sense of community of friends...
Hallee Adelman:
Yeah.
Hanna:
... within the books and the connection that each one of us has big feelings and that sense of belonging and acceptance. I love that, that it's like real kids.
Hanna:
One of the things that I always point out, a vocabulary is huge when we're working with emotions and feelings and situational [inaudible 00:10:01] to this kind of language that we want to make sure they understand so that they can name it, but also to communicate what they're exactly feeling. You give lots of, not only, like I said before, not only the name but also this great, descriptive, visual language that kids can actually, you have this empathy for the character in the book because you feel it, like in Way Past Scared you say, "I was way past scared, the kind of scared that makes you feel stiff and small and quiet. It was like there was a storm inside me."
Hanna:
So yes, the character is afraid that there's this literal storm outside and they're quite afraid. There's also that you can feel it in your body. And one of the things that I love to do with students with these books is we'll draw either like a cutout of ourselves or even just a stick person, and then we start to label what parts of our body feel a certain way when we're experiencing loneliness or jealousy or anger. And the anger one, that was the first one that I read, but that one probably, for me, I've always thought that anger was mad, right? And especially for girls. I think if a girl shows anger, "Ooh, she's out of control. She's all those kind of... that's not socially acceptable. They're just very emotional, very negative." So for little kids to think like, "It's actually okay to feel angry, that's your body's way of protecting you or giving you a little warning."
Hanna:
So getting kids in tune with their body, "Where in your body do you feel anger?" And it's so fascinating to see. Kids will draw a line to their hands and say, "My hands feel sweaty and hot and tingly." And then another kid will draw a line to their hands and say, "My hands don't have open hands, I have fists, and I'm squeezing all of my..." And there are all these ways that they're saying, "My eyes are burning, my ears feel hot and stinging," things like that are just fascinating for them to be able to start to express that.
Hallee Adelman:
Yeah.
Hanna:
Look at the kid in the picture in the book and the beautiful illustrations to say, "Yes, and now there's the language, and now I can start to feel like, whew, I'm not the only one who feels that."
Hallee Adelman:
Yeah. First of all, I love that activity that you're doing so much. I would love to be able to do that with kids also. So thank you for inspiring me today. It's funny because when I meet with kids, we do school visits or Zooms, a lot of the times what I love to do with them also, we don't have the stick figure, but we do, what's called different poses. So I'll start with them and say, "Make your mad pose and show me what it is." And we'll talk about those different body parts and like how their faces are scrunched, how tight it is in their [inaudible 00:12:52].
Hallee Adelman:
And then we also talk about power poses. Like how can you shift that? How can you become empowered? Can you have a calm pose or a peace pose? Can you have a brave pose? Can you a strong pose? How can you shift your body? Because one of the things, sometimes, when you're shifting your face or you're shifting your body, even that can start to shift from taking you from the point where you have this fight or flight kind of immediate response to how can you shift how you'll feel on the inside and act on the out? So I love that you're doing that and I can't wait to do that with kids too.
Hanna:
And it's such a great way to lead into even this is part of authors' craft, this is something they do. They have to visualize their character moving a certain way, and instead of just saying, "So-and-so was mad," to be able to say like, "The kind of mad that starts and swells and spreads like a rash," like that's in your book, Way Past Mad, right?
Hallee Adelman:
[inaudible 00:13:48].
Hanna:
That language is so much more stunning because it gives that clear, visual expression of what that looks like, what that feels like, you're transported into the pages, you can feel it in your body like it's just spreading through you. And then knowing in that book how that spreading and the swelling of that spread, and it's a bit contagious, some of those strong emotions, because as you are experiencing that, you're... out on your friends and that was such a great visual. We've been looking for those kinds of the similes and the metaphors within the books for how we can use that language in our own writing. So I think there's just this twofold piece when you're using books like that that you can really help them show what their characters in their own writing is.
Hanna:
Do you actually have a favorite one of your Way Past Mad series? Do you have a favorite one?
Hallee Adelman:
I really do love... I love all of my [inaudible 00:14:46].
Hanna:
Yeah.
Hallee Adelman:
But I think for me Way Past Mad is always going to have a special place because it really did kick off this journey of reaching kids at this deep but simple level. So for me, it feels really good.
Hallee Adelman:
And I actually do, for your students that you're working with, I actually... and it touches me so much that it can feel powerful to you guys, but I actually am doing that. I actually am sitting there like maybe a crazy person, almost transporting myself into a child's body and into that moment in a playful, imaginative way when I'm thinking of the next line. And I like to say that too for kids who have a hard time writing.
Hallee Adelman:
As a teacher in the past, one of the things I know a lot of teachers really care a lot about punctuation and perfect grammar at first, but for me as a teacher, I always really did love to look at just the expression of emotion in some way or just the expression of idea. And sometimes you obviously need grammar and punctuation to make all of those things together, get to a certain point, but even before it can, and even on a kid's journey, like kids are so amazing at expressing ideas or even acting them out. [inaudible 00:16:05] the physical way to like where kids memorize sometimes a book before then they read the book. I think I did that when I was little with Green Eggs and Ham. Before I could read it, we would memorize a book, but it's also really nice to go from that place where they can act it out to then see their words and see what they look like, and it spirits them in a different way too.
Hanna:
Right. And I know we've talked in direct messages and things like that, even about the ways that we can have extension activities and your website is fantastic because it's got those principle pages that... I just have them already slipped right into every single book. It's just a quick resource that I can pull out and then I start adding my own questions or if there's a template that I'm using for like a little person cutout so that we can label where our body is feeling those things.
Hanna:
And I love some of the ideas that you've got for those pre-reading activities. Even like you said, like the make the pose or make the faces because, again, that background information really can add to the understanding of that story. They have to look at facial features, body language, and this is part of social and emotional learning, we're understanding what our bodies are doing and what we're feeling in space and also being able to interpret other people's so we can, "Whoa, that got a reaction. And oops, like now I see that their feelings are heard or I've seen that my actions have an outcome for somebody else." And that has been really helpful too, those extension activities.
Hanna:
So the pre-reading, those post-reading of the questions, and the role play, I love some of the actionable steps even within the book. So like in Way Past Afraid, when Abbi and Van make up their thunder dance so they're like moving with the storm. And I love the line in your book, you're like, "With every rat trat, we tapped our feet, with every grum trum, we spun and spun, with every crack we froze and posed and we danced our scared away." And literally having your body move through some of those emotions so we don't feel stuck.
Hanna:
So coming up with some of those, "Let's everybody let's an afraid dance or even the angry one," right? "What can our body do to relax those shoulders?" Some of those deep breath movements, those pieces really do help with the emotions.
Hanna:
How did you come up with some of those ideas? Like I love a moment ago you said you transport yourself as if you're a child, what would your body do? How did you come up with some of those? Because they're just fantastic pieces within the book.
Hallee Adelman:
Oh, thank you. I think some of it's just the weird places that your mind... if you let yourself stay open...
Hanna:
Yeah.
Hallee Adelman:
... that's really what it is. When my kids were little, we actually made thunder cookies. So when Grandma brought out the cookies, like to us, that was like a nod to my kid. But dancing really was important. One of the things that I do sometimes with school visits, I had my little cousins make up a dance. I wrote a song, like a Way Past Mad song, and then I had my little cousins make a dance to it. And when I come and do school visits... Because one of the things that people do, some people do get their feelings out through their bodies, that is their number one thing. People do yoga, people running, so a lot of people really that is their primary way of getting it out.
Hallee Adelman:
So I think in the books, I just try to highlight the different ways. You'll see in Way Past Sad, James really is drawing his mood, he's putting it down an artistic way. So I guess sometimes I want to be as inclusive as I can of every child and every way of figuring out how to get through a big emotion.
Hallee Adelman:
So I think it's really just one, my own, personal zaniness, silliness, two, like an awareness of kids and the shift of feelings and what it takes, and three, just like what have some of the books already done? How can we do it differently so it doesn't feel so one-note, so it feels like there are so many opportunities to learn in a deeper and deeper way?
Hallee Adelman:
And I know you do that in your work because I see you... First of all, I love your resources. And I think both of us probably appreciate because I see you finding the everyday things that you then turn into something that could be really meaningful.
Hanna:
Right.
Hallee Adelman:
Like your zipper.
Hanna:
Yep. Yeah.
Hallee Adelman:
I love that because it is so simple, but it's something that kids really love. And I also really love your mince, how to teach different tips for how to capitalize different words. You know how to use something the kids really love like kids love dancing...
Hanna:
Yeah.
Hallee Adelman:
... kids love being silly. How do you take things that kids love and bring it to life for them so they can use what they love and be empowered?
Hanna:
Yep. I love that. So that definitely the pages that you've added on your website, all the listeners right now, make sure you go to the Way Past website because it's got those downloadable pieces.
Hanna:
The two latest books that you came out with, Way Past Afraid and Way Past Lonely, and I know when I've shared about the Way Past series, people have said, "Those were the top two books that were so powerful lately because kids are really experiencing, within the last two years, a lot of loneliness," and that was maybe not a tangible emotion that they knew how to explain. It was like, yes, sad, but which piece? Lonely maybe was a way more vocabulary word, a specific feeling. And yes, you can feel both of those together at the same time. And we talked about them as not friends but almost like the cousin feelings or something, like you can have these multiple feelings at the same time.
Hanna:
Were you thinking when you released the Way Past Afraid and Way Past Lonely, were you thinking of those kind of in terms of the pandemic happening?
Hallee Adelman:
I mean, we're mindful all the time of all situations, but we also want to be just tried and true so I think it's both. Way Past Worried was written before the pandemic and happened to have come out in the pandemic so that was just good timing in a sense.
Hanna:
Okay.
Hallee Adelman:
But from there, I think just living in the world and asking the question, "What's important for kids at this moment and also forever?" I think answering those two questions... And I'm really lucky, I work with a wonderful team. I'd worked with editor Wendy McClure from Albert Whitman, and now I'm working with Sue Tarsky on the series, they're calling The Great Big Feeling series because there's so many big feelings in it. And I've also been lucky to work with great illustrators that really have brought the books to life. Sandra de la Prada, who set the tone for the series with Way Past Mad and Way Past Worried. And then Karen Wall, who's now like really taken the ball and run with it. And I really love her little details too. Like Way Past Jealous, you'll see the little girl has stars on her bedspread even before she realizes she's still a star even if someone else is getting all the attention. So I love those subtle pieces that allow us to just bring the books to life and bring activities to life.
Hanna:
Right. So in your experience then as a teacher and an author, what are some of the ways that families and educators then can use these books to support children that are experiencing those? [inaudible 00:23:39] mentioned like even just the pre-teaching of the vocabulary. And then I know that through your author visits, you were saying talking about the role-playing and those important poses that they can really learn the vocabulary but also walk through how to solve and work through your emotions. Do you have any other tips for when you're introducing some of these books? When or how to introduce them with kids?
Hallee Adelman:
Yeah. I think it's really bringing it to them. We talked about before, do you want the kids to make different feelings faces? Do you want them to connect to the feelings first? So I always say, "I am," like identify, acknowledge, and then manage the feelings like on that journey. But I love the books as a beginning point of just genuinely starting a conversation. Things are better and resonate with kids with repetition and conversation to start, and from there just creating ideas that make it so tangible.
Hallee Adelman:
Like your mince kind of idea, we do something on like on the website, there's an activity of worry whip. And we talked about the idea of how like when you have cream, like to go from cream to whipped cream, when you first have cream, it's like it's spilling everywhere just like your feelings. Like how can we show the kids what it looks like and then does it have to stay spilling everywhere? If you manage your feelings, could it be good for you? Could it be better? And then we talk about just genuinely what happens when you whip that cream? What happens when you do something or take an action or try to make a change? And then all of a sudden, you're left with whipped cream.
Hallee Adelman:
So I love to do like starting the conversation, really listening to kids. I really love at the end of our reading, is to not just let the book sit by itself and say, "Here is all the answers for you, kid." I love to hear the advice and guidance that kids give each other, the things that they do when they're in certain situations.
Hallee Adelman:
It's so amazing. Way Past... Actually, My Quiet Ship was my very first book, it's about a little boy who hears like yelling in his home and pretends he's the commander of a quiet ship whenever he hears this yelling. And it's incredible to hear what kids do when they have a sound that makes them feel uncomfortable or that they wish they could quiet down. It's amazing to hear just like the love that kids give each other. So I think if we use the books, not only in all of our teacherly, loverly, parently, all those kind of love-you-up ways but also as a moment to listen and sit back, we will be so surprised and impressed with what kids come up with for themselves and for each other.
Hanna:
I love that. And I think one of the things, I've talked about this with other Bookstagrammers in our community, is we've got a lot of great picture books that maybe highlight an issue or a problem or concept, and sometimes it's just left right there. And I think that can be really overwhelming for kids when we talk about climate or we talk about illness or something like that, and kids, they take it seriously, and it really takes up a big space in their heart and their minds. And I love a book that shows that, it identifies it, but then gives kids some ideas, and then gives them agency to create some of the furthering of that concept. So I think that what you were just saying, that's exactly the way that I think kids really start to then feel empowered. They need that knowledge, they need some ideas, but then they need to take some ownership and the creativity and own it. "I know I can do these things for myself."
Hanna:
And there's even part of that sort of even consent part of it, of like, "I don't need your hug right now, this is what I need, this is what I want for that space that I need," or "I want to just color, I actually don't want to stomp it out and dance. I actually would just like to go do some art or play with Lego or..."
Hallee Adelman:
Yeah. Exactly.
Hanna:
"...I want to go eat a cookie."
Hanna:
Okay. So I asked a few of my students if we could create our own book or ask Hallee for the next, and hands down, they said Way Past Silly. And I thought that was funny because they loved the humorous things and they laughed even when the kids were maybe doing something that was, in their minds, wasn't the best choice, they laughed because they identified with a little bit like, "Oops. Yeah, I have made that mistake too." But they were thinking Way Past Silly was a funny one.
Hallee Adelman:
Did you hear that, Sil? I'm going to have to bring it up. It's funny. I can tell them, hopefully not to their disappointment, that the next three books won't be Way Past Silly because they're already in motion.
Hanna:
Yep.
Hallee Adelman:
But hopefully, they'll feel really good about them and I'm going to bring up Way Past Silly because I love silliness. I love joy as a way to just get through hard things too.
Hanna:
Yeah.
Hallee Adelman:
So I think [inaudible 00:28:34] have great ideas.
Hanna:
Thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I just absolutely adore you, and I think it's just been so wonderful getting to know you so have a wonderful rest of your day.
Hallee Adelman:
You too, and keep up your great work. Thank you.
Hanna:
Thank you.
Connect with Hallee
https://www.halleeadelman.com/
Instagram @WayPastBooks and @HalleeAdelman
Twitter @HalleeAdelman