Structured Literacy and Lively Letters

Apr 5

Welcome everyone to the My Literacy Space Podcast. I am grateful to have two amazing human beings on the podcast today. These two people feel like family. I met Nancy and Penny from Reading with TLC in the summer of 2009. That was a while ago. First, I want to say hello to both of you. You are my favorite Bostonians-welcome Penny and Nancy!

Penny, Nancy (00:26):

Thank you. We are so happy to be here with you. Thank you so much.

Hanna (00:31):

Thank you for taking the time to chat with me. Firstly, please introduce yourself and tell the audience a little bit about yourselves, your background, and your company vision.

Nancy (00:47):

Firstly, Penny and I are sisters. I am the oldest sister. I always like to admit that. Penny's background is in elementary education. I am a speech pathologist with a specialty in literacy. We are Co-Directors here at Reading with TLC. We have been together for 32 years and spend much of our time presenting professional development webinars. We are always in product development here at the office. There is always something cooking in development in terms of what people are asking for. We have fun together.

Hanna (01:24):

I got the chance to spend time with Penny and Nancy over two different summers. The time just did not last long enough. I wished I could have spent more time with you last fall. I was planning another trip because there was an opportunity to go to the Eric Carl Museum in Massachusetts. They had a huge display on the history of Wordless Picture books, which is my absolute favourite genre. The trip did not work out because it was not safe to travel at that point. So, I missed seeing you again in person.

Nancy (02:03):

We miss you as well Hannah. You are a wonderful professional and you are very smart. You are a real ambitious person, and most importantly, you are such a kind person. Your heart is out there to help others-and that is what it is all about. Anything you are doing; we are backing you!

Hanna (02:22):

You both are amazing. Today, I want to talk about the important connection between speech and language and decoding and encoding. You may know my story and my connection Reading with TLC from an earlier episode but let me catch you up. In 2009, I was working with an SLP at a local community school. The SLP left added resources for me to check out that could be of use with my reading groups. I felt already really overwhelmed; and was reluctant to add something new to my plate-and now I had to learn something new. I dutifully started pouring through the material and I realized this is really making sense. The next step was implementing the sound cards. The information was new to me. The phonemic awareness, drills and practices could be done together with the sound cards. I saw a huge raise of awareness with my students-they were engaged. Students were coming to reading groups the next time and asking questions- “Who are we going to meet today?” ”What are they going to teach us about?” “What are we going to track?” “What kind of words are we doing?” “Our words are getting bigger!” The excitement was building, and it was all because of the shift in the way that I understood that the kids needed oral kinesthetic cues. They needed to not add additional sounds on the end-like P. Things like that had been rooted too much in memorizing lists. Let us look at the picture for a clue and it really was not the basis of speech supporting their reading and the understanding of the phonemic awareness and chronological awareness pieces. That is what I wanted to talk a little bit about. When did you start Reading with TLC? What was the vision for supporting students, educators and SLPs knowing the big link? Can you explain a little bit about that link between speech and language and decoding and encoding?

Nancy (04:38):

Sure. It all started when I was working in the public schools as a speech pathologist- I was subcontracted there. I was there three days a week. I had a large caseload. Kids were struggling back then. They just were saying, um, auditory processing that was on every ed plan. People were not really talking about phonemic awareness, even though the research was already there in the eighties- this was 1990. I found that many of my students were having trouble. I saw that they also were having trouble with reading. I started working with the speech kids on my caseload. I looked at other programs that did just auditory traditional phonemic awareness, tokens, blocks. I did things like I put out tokens and say, “If that says, that, make it say this.” The kids have the auditory memory to remember which color represented, which sound, because I also did not have letter-sound connection. The kids who have letter sounds mastered are seeing the letters in their head when they are doing those auditory only phonemic things. I needed to switch to teaching kids letter sounds, I was in my thirties. I had never taught letter sounds -ever, but I did it as a speech pathologist. Never thinking about that the talk is all about speech to print. That is what I was doing. We would talk about the first two sounds that are the easiest to perceive or produce. I would have them say the sound and help them try to figure out what they are doing with their mouth when they make the sound. We would figure out, if their lips were coming together, puffing out air -one has voice off, one has voice on. We label these as quiet, and noisy lip puffing sounds. Then I had drawings. I was just using a pencil and I would draw a big bubble letter and I would draw lips into a key part of that, of a, of a P. When I looked at that P they saw closed lips automatically and they closed their lips. What I did for A, I did for the B as well. What happened is that they knew that to close their lips and pop out air, but they could not remember which one said p and which one said b. So that is when I had to draw a little bit more detail to turn them into characters. I made the quiet one a quiet mother who has her voice on and the little baby, the b was a very noisy baby. They just started picking up personalities. I started to try these with my speech caseloads. I started to see their articulation skills improving. Penny came in, she was excited to join me. She added friendliness to the program, more fun factor - I am very clinical. Penny helped me with the characters. The speech department was floored. They could not believe the results and started spreading the word to others in the school. Anyone who struggled with reading would be on a waiting- participate in a 15-minute screening and they would be placed on our list. We would see them for thirty sessions in small group, they were going up a year and a half to three years in various skills. Our products started spreading through Boston, spreading into universities and by word of mouth it just started taking off. We are proud that even back in 1990, 1991, we found this method worked with hundreds of kids that were piloting the program. Our components were proven in research. We were doing what made sense and it was working. Luckily, all the research coming out was supporting exactly what we were doing. We were fortunate to be on the crescendo that had taken 30 years to get to this point of where people are now focused on the Science of Reading and knowing that you must have good phonemic awareness skills, good phonics skills and that speech to print is so important. We are lucky that this is what we had been doing, drifting in and out- making little tweeks all the time. We both feel very blessed to be in this field, so happy that it is catching on with everybody, not just around the country, but around the world.

Hanna (08:54):

Nancy, you were drawing the character pieces. You said when you were doing the drawing, and the book that the commonalities, where the lips are going together, you are puffing out air, a little bit of a difference one is voice on and one is voice off. What does sort of the embedded mnemonics or little pieces visually that supports that as well.

Nancy(09:24):

I forgot to mention is not being the key word approach where they have the baby book, these clue and pictures are eliciting the sound and isolation. Picture a big bubble B-a lowercase B and a big bubble P. There is a picture of a baby drawn in there. And there is a little story that this is a little baby and babies make so much noise that that reminds us, and we want to make noise. We are going to turn our voice on when we make this lip by obsess. Now, do you see the one with this? That is when the sucks at the bottom of the line, here is another one where the line comes first, see those close lips. We are going to close our lips and pop out ear, but do you see that sucker at the top of the line? That is a quiet mother and she is always saying, don't make much noise. We do not want to wake up the baby. So that reminds us to keep our voice off. So, so let us make that quiet lip puffing sound. There is a hand cue for each of these. One of the biggest features of the letter is the line comes first on both those puffing sounds. We call them lip popping sounds because you can make them both the same way. One has a voice off one has voice on, but on the pictures of both of those letters, there is a picture of lips closed going up the line picture flying on the left of the P and on the left of the B. As soon as the student sees that letter, they put their lips together. This prepares them to make the correct sound.

Hanna (10:50):

Those visual cue pieces have that in memory. Not just memorizing the letter, but literally, when you think about it you look at it. For example- right now I'm looking at a plant on my desk. As soon as I close my eyes, that sort of image is, for a few fleeting seconds, engraved in my memory. I see it. When the student is seeing those letters constantly, with the cues and the arrow, drawn right on the card, pointing every single reference to it is saying “Put your lips together.” That is one of the cues. Instead of just giving them the answer ask questions- “What do you notice first?” “What do you see first?” “Do you see the line first, and put your lips together?” Those things are what have made an enormous difference for kids who are versing the letter sounds when they are printing them or even when they are decoding.

Those kinds of pieces, the oral kinesthetic cues, are amazing. Let us talk about when they have learned a few sounds. I want to tell one of my favorite quotes because this pairs so nicely. Many of us were big on sending lists home to memorize words- whether it was spelling words or whether it was from the adult list. The high-frequency words- trying to drill them in, instructing the kids to memorize the words and you will get a sticker. If you memorize ten words you get another sticker.

Dr. Martin Poff, a professor of education, said in 2002, that “If a child memorized ten words, the child could only read ten words. But if a child learns the sound of ten letters, the child will be able to read 353 sound words, 4324 sound words and 21,655 sound words. So that is a total of 26,320 words.” That is way more powerful to be able to have those children master ten sounds than just the ten words. Those kinds of connections have come along in the last years that I have been collaborating with you and working with my students - keeping in the back of my head that it is not about memorization. It is about looking at all the clues. My favorite saying that I always say to my students is “What do you notice?” I really want that metacognition piece to kick in about, this is what I know. This is how I can blend these sounds together. I just read a five-sound word because they are putting into practice those little, tiny pieces. I want to talk about these cards in isolation, the kids know these ten sounds. What about the tracking activities and why is that important? Are we always using the adorable little creatures and friendly, deep faces from the live letters? Or when do we move on?

Penny (14:07):

Once you have taught ten consonants in one or two vowel sounds, do we have a whole different sequence than what a lot of other people are used to-we recommend introducing letters in our sequence, which is developmental on the sounds that are the easiest to proceed and easiest to produce first. It starts with not A, B, C deem rent was P and B T and D. Once twelve or thirteen letters are familiar - with the picture cards, we put them into little word play activities, which we call tracking. This is going to be what really develops phonemic awareness and phonics skills. Figure you would take three of those letters; the consonant, a vowel, and a consonant, and put it down on the table. Have the students touch each letter while they say each sound. So “P” pot. We have special strategies for kids that have trouble when blending that sound. You have them say each sound and then blend the word a pot. Then you say, “If that word says pot, I'm going to change one of those letters.” And I might take out the P and put it an M and I would say, “What word does it say now?” The students have sounded out and you make another change and another part of the word. You are just going making one change at a time as the teacher or the instructor. The student keeps reading one new word at a time and will quickly realize that it makes a difference by just changing one letter and one sound. A whole new word, and it is important for kids to see that. Then you flip it and do some encoding or manipulative cards, spelling a new word each time by changing one sound. An example- the word P O T we will start with that easy one again. I would say, “If that says pot, can you make it say, pat? What must change?” You have them touch each letter and see which letters change the sound while they say the new word. Use the word pat. Ask the student “Can you make it say Matt?” The student would say, “Matt- I have to change the P to an M.” Going back and forth between decoding and encoding; this is the meat of the program. It is great that you are teaching them the letters with these cute little characters, but the meat of the program is the tracking, decoding and encoding activities, which improve phonemic awareness and phonics skills. We have so many young children that need this type of training but have had so many students that are in middle school and high school, even adults that come to us or to their teachers and need this training because they just do not get past second grade when they are trying to just memorize words. Going through this program with them, and with these cute little characters, they learn how to do the reading and spelling activities. Then when they are about 90% successful with that, we transfer those skills to plain letters because they need to do those same tracking activities with plain letters so that they can fluidly decode and encode words and spell words with play letters. Then they move into word lists and then to books, into writing. That is where you are going with these skills, they just build upon each other and create success.

Hanna (18:42):

I think one of the things that really struck me at the very beginning was finally seeing something with the scope and sequence. Everything that I looked at before - there is barely time in a school year to be able to teach how to put it all together if you are only focusing on one letter. I loved the concept of the diagnostic, but this cumulative piece added to the scope and sequence where I could check in about what they knew or did not know these, or they have mastered this. How do I make it more difficult without making it hard? I am just increasing either the word length or I go to plain letters or add in a new piece of material where I go from the sound- to the word, to a phrase, to a sentence, to a decodable book. It gave me more freedom because the scope and sequence were there. We are saying that the science of reading has proven that our instruction needs to be explicit, systematic, and cumulative. You developed so much of this 30 years ago that is aligning with all that-and it works. The aha moment for me was when I realized that it was clearly laid out and I can use it to keep going with my students. In the states, they do a lot of the RTI and I am not sure if that has changed. But even to be able to pull a small group (at the C level) and another group at consonant or triple consonant blends, or a group is over on king ed, the silent E world, things like that have made it powerful because you have that scope and sequence right there. Penny said that it is based on what is easiest to perceive and produce. That is the reason it is not just a random scope and sequence. It is developmentally the way speech has impacted how we read. Nancy, a lot of people have heard that if speech is easy, why is not reading so easy? Can you give us a little bit on that?

Nancy (19:59):

One of the myths is that kids learn to read naturally- just read to them a lot- they do not learn to read. We learn to speak naturally. The human brain has been wired beautifully for speech and language. We have language portions of the brain. Reading is a new human skill, even though we have been reading for a long time, not as long as we have been talking. So that is why so many individuals struggle with learning to read. There was not a reading place in the brain. What we need in the brain is strong connections between the auditory section, the visual section and motor speech. It is all about the pathways. That is why Reading with TLC programs are all about the pathways. We are connecting the visual shape of the letter to the way it sounds to what we are doing with our mouth.

Hanna(21:18)

I wanted to also to talk about that. Sometimes people shy away from the word program versus method. These are the key concepts. Children need to be taught- this is for all learners. It is critical for so many students with any kind of learning disability. We need to be able to have this in place. I want to come back to that -why is it when we talk about prevention is so important rather than just always thinking about intervention. My husband is in healthcare, and I always come back to that analogy. We do not wait for somebody to get sick. Do not wait for something bad to happen. We have things in place so that we can prevent some of those things from happening, like baby-proofing your house with the little plastic things covering the sockets on the plugs. Those are ways that we prevent injuries from happening. Can you talk a little about the difference between how we view this approach to teaching kids as prevention, but also how we could use it for intervention?

Penny (22:37):

Sure. It seems like so many people focus on reading strategies for intervention, especially people that think you can just easily pick up reading. They only pay attention to the kids that are struggling. I am going to have to tell you that's where the money is -struggling students. When we were started, we were brought into the schools because kids were struggling. They bought into this program so that we could produce these strategies that worked with these materials. What was funny was that these poor other kids who did not appear to have any reading disabilities also benefitted. In the time that we started, it was a whole language approach. Nobody was using phonics in this school system back in 1990. They were just doing oral reading. Kids did not have reading disabilities, but they had curriculum-based disabilities. In second grade the students were crashing. In fact, the principal came up to me one day. He said, “Penny, we have a problem here. You know, these kids, they were doing great in first grade. And you tell me that now they come to second grade and suddenly, they have all had a reading disability now” We were getting so many referrals. Second grade, well it was not that they had developed a reading disability. They were not truly able to sound out words in kindergarten and in first grade - they did no phonics. Only reading the words as you said that they memorized. Kids get to second grade. There are only so many words they can memorize. Big words like electricity and Benjamin Franklin cannot be memorized -they needed to have phonics books. That is why the teachers were running to us. Once we started getting the kindergarteners, first graders, and second graders ingrained in this program then the structured phonics and the phonemic awareness training. Now it is bumped down to pre-K as well. You stop seeing these second and third graders coming to you with reading disabilities. Much is in the prevention. We have a group of people, interventionists, they are collaborating with those struggling readers. We also have kids, and teachers who are working with the preschool, the kindergarten, and first graders. Even second grade is learning new phonemic awareness and phonics skills. They will not have reading disabilities. That is the world we hope to see eventually- where no kids have reading disabilities because they received these strategies early on.

Hanna (25:21):

The next part of reading with TLC is the site where you can see resources with high-frequency words. And again, you did the same thing. You have those embedded cues, very explicit instructions about where these pieces of the word may or may not differ from a traditional spelling rule or something like that. Penny, I know that you had a big part in that. Can you talk about those?

Penny (25:46):

Sure. I started creating this in 93, 1993, when I was like 12 years old. We had these kids that were participating in Nancy’s li program, they were awesome. These first graders were coming up to us. We were sending them back to their classroom, sounding out nonsense words at a third-grade level, which was amazing. But they were going back again to those whole language classrooms and their books were filled with words that did not follow the rules of phonics. We decided this was another emergency. We do not like emergencies. But emergency drives people to create. At that time I went through the Dolch sight word list and picked out the ones that are abstract words- that don't follow the rules of phonics- for example, come have and want you, can't just the way you develop true sight words, Sight words are any words that you've read enough times so that your brain now recognizes them by looking. In Orthographic Mapping they're going to assign a letter to a sound. They are recognizing these letter patterns and the sound patterns. Once they read the times and for some kids, it takes a few more times for some people they could look at it twice and it becomes a sight word. Your name could be Samantha. And that could be a sight word. Talk about sight words. Sometimes they are referring to the most frequent sight word. When they talk about the sight word list, like Dolce or Fry rise, sight words could be words like fall and door. But then, there are the abstract ones that are harder to learn because you cannot learn them with a picture. Words still phonetically, for example, “like” or “name”, what's a picture of a name? If kids can sound those out, typically they learned those quickly. We took those abstract words that are not easy to sound out. I just drew little pictures with a very faint line drawing around those words to link the irregular or infrequent spelling pattern to the way the word should be pronounced to the meaning of the word. With that three-pronged approach, kids are focusing heavily on the letter patterns and the sounds - which ones do not match. They need to see sometimes seven letters and recognize that pattern. It has made a big difference. It fills in the gap once they have those. You can pull the kids out of those phonetically controlled books that have no sight words but are great for practicing products. Kids can step into a richer world of literature when they've gotten those other frequent words that don't match the way they should be pronounced.

Hanna (28:52):

One of my favorite sections is when you are talking about all the words that share “wa“ patterns and you have got the adorable patterns. I do direct drawing with my students because number one, it keeps us engaged. Especially when I am online tutoring, I must keep them engaged. We do a lot of directed drawings, and we will start with today. We are going to talk about a group of words, for example the word walrus. Let us draw a walrus. They do not really understand at the beginning that we are going somewhere with this. We draw the little character that you have. Then we start talking about words such as - watch, wand, water, and walrus. Words that have that “wa” sound. Right after the “wa” suddenly, they have 10 new words that they can read, and they are starting to see it in other patterns. If I did not cover a word, they come back and they say, “I noticed a word in my reading last week and it was walk.” Walk was not one of our words. Just seeing that huge connection- you give them something to kind of hold onto. It is something concrete because sometimes words can be abstract. Give them that concrete, you are explicitly teaching that sound pattern, the rule or how these words have something in common with each other. That is what I really love about the materials that you are creating.

Nancy (30:25):

Just so the listeners will know, we did not just pick the word walrus to compare it to the story. The walrus- his tusks make a W. Right beside it we put a, a as in apple. We say, Wally the walrus, when he sees that apple after him, Wally Wawa waddles out of the Wawa water, because he wants that apple. Every time they see “wa” they are supposed to trigger to say wa wa. It prepares them to make that correct sound. As crazy as you can make your story, and mine are annoying. The kids remember crazy stories the best

Hanna (31:07):

They have started producing some of their own as well. Those phonemic cues are great for supporting our brain. For memory recall, it is even a terrific way. Even when we think of executive functioning, we are talking about the plan and preparing, getting organized. That is why I always use that phrase. “What do you notice?” “Before you go to write that word, what do you notice about that word?” They must either listen to it before they spell it, or they must look at it to see what parts they know. If they know that, then we cannot read it as anything else. Unless it is a, an, an irregular high pregnancy work. I want to talk about my favorite resource though from Reading with TLC. As an online tutor, I do have a lot of kids in person as well, but online it has been the best tool. It combined things that I was trying to put together in early 2020. Clicking between all these different tabs on your computer things are shutting down. The studio just has so many excellent features in it that can be used in person and online with Smartboards that many class rooms have. I have access to all the stories, all the music, all the Lively Letter cards, I can resize them. They are movable pieces. Then the plain letters I love. I have been loving the morphology process as well, because for my older students, we have gone past that one sound at a time. We are really looking at those base and root words, prefixes, and suffixes. You guys are so creative. How did that come to be? Maybe talk a little bit about the features.

Nancy (33:26):

We have a fantastic iOS app. The iOS app has content in there, but people can always use it on an iPad or iPhone. For years, people were asking us, “Can we use this on a Chromebook?” “Can we use this on a computer?” “Can we use this on a tablet?” “What about my other kind of phone?” So, we put ours together during the pandemic where we saw the need was the greatest. When we got together, we decided we need something that is going to be all in one place on any device. We made it much richer even than the app. As you said, we have several different things today. We have this interactive whiteboard, which is the most popular feature teachers can create as many whiteboards ahead of time as they want. They can, they can just have various kinds of lessons with various kinds of content to just save it. They have as many as they want and name it per student or group, and they can move those letters around. They can move around the sight words. We have the indirect whiteboard where they can upload images, upload PDFs. It is just very, very personal. Then we have the flashcard lessons where, as you said, all the library, letter pictures, and plain letters are there where they recorded stories, English and Spanish, and all the songs know all the site where you can see cards there. And we have the stories written out in a little, uh, guide there and the teacher tools every month, we are adding more content. There is a whole teacher tools section with lots of strategies and progress, monitoring tools, and all kinds of things there. The activities section is extraordinarily rich. We are always putting together activities. And you are wonderful, you donated some of your activities. We have eBooks there. We have different hot topic webinars. And the difference is where the app, you purchase a, a one-time fee for your iPads of your students. The studio is a subscription-based model, so it is only $9. 99 a month. Then if you subscribe yearly, you save a month's worth. In fact, what we have also just sat in doing is if you get the yearly subscription, we give you $102 worth of tailoring activity eBooks. It's only $109 for the yearly studio anyway. There is only a $7 difference there. I know you are a little bit different in Canadian. People are loving this because it's not for online trainings, right. Online work with kids, it is also great. As Hannah mentioned in the classrooms, whether you have an interactive white board, which is fantastic, the kids can move the letters around on that. Even if you just have a screen that you could project it onto, it makes it nice and big. Everybody sees it from the back classroom. This is going to be our most popular thing going forward. It is every month we are adding more activities, more training. One of Hanna's trainings was in there and she is so great with her training. We are just always taking one out, putting another one in. People are getting to continue ed credits, right from those courses that come within there. We also have little demonstrations on how to do some of our most popular strategies. It is a wonderful resource for teachers. We find that teachers, principals, and administrators are really jumping on board with this.

Hanna (35:58)

All-in-one space- very efficient. I love Nancy that you reminded me to talk about how you can free save some of the boards with which you are working. Where can my guests connect with you? I know that you have Reading with TLC now on Instagram and we can find you on Facebook.

Tell me about the upcoming training. Do you know which sessions are coming up in the next couple of months?

Nancy (36:23):

If they go to readingwithtlc.com, they will see our lunch shop or all our material. They will see a training section and there is always going to be a list of what is coming up. And so, like a couple of things we have coming up, which we are really excited about March 7th, we have Jane Hasbrook coming in to talk about how to take all that data from your reading assessments and plan your instruction. We also have one coming up from Chris Wooden. Who is very well known for math techniques, for kids who are struggling. We have an oral language session in April. We have at least two coming every month. And we have big names coming. We have talks in the fields. We have met David KPA, Maryanne Wolf, Louisa loads, great people. The other thing is we always have our Lively Letter trainings coming up. We have some coming up in March and we have a Pre-K one coming up in March. We have another one in April on a Saturday. Penny, we have the on-demand, suite of hot topic webinars. If you want to just mention a little bit of that. We have about forty recorded. We call them hot topic webinars. These are little, they are not on our program. These are little two hour, webinars that are recorded. Many of them are turning into recordings and you could go and watch them on demand. And there are all different subjects related to language and literacy. We have sessions on kids with Asperger's or autism spectrum disorder. We have some technology for any teachers, tutors, or interventionists that need to get up with the times like we had to- both in our sixties. So, do not feel bad. We have come kicking and screaming through this technology age, but it has saved us. We know it is saving everybody, especially after this whole COVID situation. We have been very aware of how important technology is and how to use technology. I do not think it is ever going to go in a way. Zoom. It is going to be around a long time. That is all on the website. And then other places you can always reach us by email: us@inforeadingwithtlc.com and then we have our social media. We have a couple of things on Facebook. We have a Facebook page that is active. We have about close to 18,000, people there. We also have a Facebook group. If you go into groups and you look under Reading with TLC Lively Letters, that is the name of our smaller group. It is about 3,700 people who are always talking and contributing. Then we have Instagram and that is at Reading with TLC. We have Twitter at Reading with TLC. We are not as active on Twitter and where we are bumping up our activity. Now on Instagram, we are really getting into that more. Now we also have just updated a little bit, our YouTube channel again, that's YouTube and then a search for Reading with TLC. I am always there on LinkedIn. Although I must be honest, I am not really using it that much, but we do. We do have a LinkedIn.

Hanna (39:27):

But it is good. Tell us about another platform. That is the thing right now, like there are a lot of platforms, but are just more comfortable on certain platforms. I just want to make sure that if people have any questions about what we have talked about today, you can send myself an email or any of the places that you just talked about. Thank you so much today for spending time and just talking about your passion for language and the connection between language and literacy The big takeaway to today, is that speech and language are connected to literacy. That prevention really is key. And everything that we talk about for intervention can always be used for prevention.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Shop Lively Letters: https://rwtlc.ositracker.com/110982/8451 (This is my affiliate link!)

Connect with Penny and Nancy

Website: https://readingwithtlc.com/

Lively Letters app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lively-letters-phonemic-awareness-phonics/id1217971701?ls=1

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/readingwithtlc/

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/203873323445553/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/readingwithtlc/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/readingwithtlc

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/readingwithtlc

LinkedIn

Nancy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancytelian/